nb4DS

[funwes]

ffs

It's changed, and will stay that way.

You can't theorycraft on the forums; that's been proven several times.

Right now it will be retested with the airport move.

If it sucks as is right now, then it will revert back to the old map.

If it's balanced, it will stay.

There's no huge deal of "theory" surrounding this map, believe me. It's just a small fucking change.

Love,
The Map Maker

[blanci1]

it does seem we are getting convergence on most points now.... but please people try not to misrepresent what ive been saying

It's changed, and will stay that way.

i always said the new one is fine ... and what you actually do with your particular map isnt the issue for me, it is what should be done in these kind of cases that is the real point.

You can't theorycraft on the forums; that's been proven several times.

where does that dogma come from ? if you dont want to discuss interesting concepts well no one is forcing you to visit this topic created by ichbins

Right now it will be retested with the airport move. If it sucks as is right now, then it will revert back to the old map. If it's balanced, it will stay.

again i always said its obvious the new one is balanced ...thats not an issue.

There's no huge deal of "theory" surrounding this map, believe me. It's just a small fucking change.

here we diverge i m afraid. The old map is potentially quite different gameplaywise... it is a small change on the surface but it represents a potential big change in the gameplay... so much so, that the old map was considered highly dynamic by ichbins and potentially unbalanced by walker,,, and he may be right. It certainly would play quite differently from a theorists point of view.

Love,
The Map Maker

i like that bit.
You should be proud your map old and new is famous.

[funwes]

but please people try not to misrepresent what ive been saying

I can barely read what you're saying most of the time, hence, misrepresentation. From what I can tell, you say that the new map is balanced, and that's not an issue, but the old one should be "preserved"? No offense, but that's just a waste of time and AWBW resources. Just because it "might" be a huge difference doesn't mean that it is - you're theorycrafting, and that has been proven to not be effective in the past in various other threads that are long dead. If the old map is unbalanced, there's no point in keeping or playing it.

Also,

if you dont want to discuss interesting concepts well no one is forcing you to visit this topic created by ichbins

It's my map, do I not get a say?

[blanci1]

yes of course you should get a say.... oh, i thought it was you who didnt want to say anything.

Anyway now that ive thought about it, i agree now more with walker that the old version could be a bit dodgy especially for important tournaments like the Global and especially knockout tournaments ! ... however it is probably not so bad, and probably quite good for other purposes (to explore curious issues) and probly even ok in the usual leagues where one game is not such a big deal... the fun factor can count for a bit more here.

Perhaps we could do with a special map category of "interesting gameplay maps but with unclear balance issues" (where i mean that the balance is not obviously in any one teams favor... kind of sensitive maps... there are actually a lot of other maps around which are considered good but are also probably quite sensitive and can be decided on very lucky things). Then these maps would be ok in small numbers in old leagues but not good for knockout and important global or ladder type tourney.

[Walker]

Anyway now that ive thought about it, i agree now more with walker that the old version could be a bit dodgy especially for important tournaments like the Global and especially knockout tournaments !

Cool, I'm glad we agree on that haha.

Perhaps we could do with a special map category of "interesting gameplay maps but with unclear balance issues"

I think it makes more sense instead to try to fix these sorts of maps and turn them into "interesting gameplay maps without balance issues at all".

[blanci1]

Still, it might be theoretically interesting to try to find out who has the presumed imbalance in their favour, Red Fire or Cobalt Ice (on funwes original map). Though without decent computer (AI) help that may be tricky.

[Walker]

Well, it really wouldn't be that hard. A simple capture phase calculation can tell you who can get the 1st b-copter and when. Then you come up with a counter strategy that the other person could use, and see if it's viable or not. It would just require a bit of analysis and a couple of intelligent test games I think.

I just figured it'd be easier to give Wes a suggestion for an easy fix though, rather than do a really in-depth analysis of the map before putting it in the league.