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Changing League Maps (Updated)

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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Walker » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:23 pm

If the Col S6 FoW section is successful. I believe walker will introduce some of the col map into the L8, or there will be more FoW tourneys.

If Colosseum even gets enough people to run. :roll:

Also, we're hoping to restructure FoW gameplay a bit so that it can work better (essentially remove the huge luck factor involved) and not cause stalemates so often. I really doubt that the FoW League (League 8 ) will get revived, but if there is enough interest in FoW games at some point in the future, I would not be opposed to running a competition specifically aimed at that.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby fdkanns » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:35 pm

yeah, FoW league is dead.
I won. :wink:

gg no re :D
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby ichbinsehselber » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:28 pm

The old fog of war league is very nice as it is!

Adding a new variant would be a much better idea than replacing the old one!
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Mori » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:32 pm

I'm necro-ing this thread, because I think the topic is still very important, and I don't think a new thread needs to be started if we have one that is exactly what I am looking for. I ask the same question that was asked in the original post.

SmackCakes wrote:I'm going to remove some league maps and add some new maps. so I would like to know now which maps you are fed up with, and how many new maps you would like added, and if you want the map lists to keep growing or if you'd prefer they are just refreshed with news maps every once in a while (how often?)


Don't expect the League maps to change instantly based on your suggestions, but do understand that I very much value the opinions, perspectives, and insight of the players here, and in particular the regular League players around here.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Mori » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:07 am

Alright cool. Just keep in mind, League maps will change, and if the map committee doesn't get feedback from players, we basically just make the decisions based solely on our own judgments, which is fine I guess. Just keep in mind, I keep asking these questions for you, AWBW players, not for me.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby theether » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:04 am

Personally I'd like it more, if the amount of league maps kept growing :)
That way, when a lot of maps are used they won't become boring.

I don't play many league games, though.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Walker » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:49 pm

Two bits of input from me:

1. Map Committee, you should do whatever you please. If you really mess up badly (which I strongly, strongly doubt will happen) then maybe people would say something. I kind of doubt it though, I don't think most players even notice or really care what maps they play on.

2. If I were playing in the league, I'd prefer shorter lists of maps that are rotated more regularly. It's a little more work perhaps, but most maps also get stale after you play on them more than 4-5 times.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Sulla1982ad » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:11 am

http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=36928

This needs to be a in a fog of war league.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Walker » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:47 pm

There isn't a maintained fog league.

And if there was, that map isn't well-designed enough to be worth adding.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Sulla1982ad » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:24 am

What do you mean it is not well designed enough? Please back that assertion up with something? Have you even played on the map? Was was it included in the fog league in the first place? It was taken off out of spite by someone I won't mention.

Map is perhaps the best map on the site.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Sulla1982ad » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:25 am

Taste is subjective, I am sure you like a different type of map. I think mainstream map taste is quite bland and boring. I like things that are different.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Walker » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:16 pm

First of all, maps with tons of forests are exactly the maps that should NOT be used for FoW matches. Placing tons of forests everywhere often makes the best strategy setting up an artillery wall, and unless you're Sonja it's impossibly hard to mount any sort of attack. The result of this is almost always stalemate (unless someone plays poorly). Your map has thickly packed forests with little thought put into how they will affect unit placement or battle.

But your map is poorly designed even for non-FoW games. The positioning of the neutral bases is atrocious, they take forever to come into play, can be quite easily locked down by a rocket, and putting them behind pipe seams creates other balance problems based on who can build artillery soonest.

Your map only has one real unit route which leads to a single, relatively small front. Due to the narrowness of the front and high terrain, there is no space for interesting movement, interesting defensive positioning, and I think it encourages very little high-level tactical gameplay. The decisions one must make will be rather straightforward and each game on the map will develop in quite the same way. This seems to me to be the definition of "bland and boring", and your assertion that it is "the best map on the site" just shows how little you know about anything map-related.

Maybe back in '08 when you made the map, it was considered good. But just because at one point your map was slightly less shitty than most of the other crap doesn't give it any worth. The level of map-making has so dramatically since '08, that your map has been left in the dust.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby airob » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:42 pm

I´ll sum up Walker´s TL;DR version.

FoW maps need sneaky play. placing a lot (and i mean a lot) of forests together is not sneaky play, it is clumping. Sneaky play needs a lot of routes for units to encourage different tactics and mind tricks. In your map, there is only one route.

Second, the neutral bases are contested. Pipe seams add more variables to the equation of balance in a map. This one delays the capture of the neutral base by several tunrs at which point any army can get both. (likely the one to deploy rockets or lots of artillery first).

Review some of the lattest FoW maps created. even non-FoW maps might give you interesting ideas to set a sneaky enough map for FoW play.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Walker » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:50 pm

I gave him the TLDR version first...

that map isn't well-designed enough to be worth adding.


But he didn't like that.
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Re: Changing League Maps (Updated)

Postby Sulla1982ad » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:24 am

The pipe stream adds more strategy and complex play. Never seen a game on this map that leads to statemate. You can contest both bases, you can focus on one, it is up to you. I think you've made a superficial judgement of the map.
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