AW/FE by Web

AWBW/FEBW Forum
It is currently Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:12 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


New CO based on Movement

Talk about custom COs, units, classes, weapons or anything else.

Moderator: Forum Mods

New CO based on Movement

Postby matchet » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:21 am

Arzatros
Co bar: [_][_][_][*][*][*]
Passive Innate, Wind Mastery: Every unit gain +3% bonus damage for each step that unit does that turn (for example, a soldier who moves 3 will get a +9% bonus to Attack if he attacks after moving)
Costs and Stats: Normal
CO Power [_]: Wind Strike: Units get +3% bonus damage for each MovePoint they have (for example, a Rocket got 3*5=15% additional bonus damage).
SuperCO Power [*] : Wind Barrier: Enemy Indirect Units lose 1 Attack range and direct units get -10% Damage. Arzatros' units get +1 MovePoint


~~Lore~~
Country: Image Blue Moon
History: Born under a fiery storm, usual phenomena in Alderaan Island, he adquired an innate talent to control and use the wind. He likes face-to-face combats and allways fight with his giant sword Lohengrin.
Hit: Hurricanes
Miss: Good Time






.
.

Comment, and one question: this threads really worth? Have Advance Wars By Web's creators plans to add custom COs?
matchet
Infantry
Infantry
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:52 am

Re: New CO based on Movement

Postby matchet » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:59 am

Bump!
No comments? Even an answer for the question?
matchet
Infantry
Infantry
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:52 am

Re: New CO based on Movement

Postby theether » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:40 am

i like this concept and that your CO isn't broken
A recon could potentially gain 24% bonus damage, whereas indirects get nothing.
imo you could even increase the bonus to 4% or 5% per step without taking it too far.

As to your question:
This site isn't very active, so it might take some time until an answer arrives :wink:
COs aren't added to AWBW, because they want to keep it as near to the original as possible.
Custom COs are just for fun.
If you really want to see your CO in a game and you're ok with it,
maybe I could include him in the AW-like game I'm currently working on :)
User avatar
theether
Recon
Recon
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:12 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New CO based on Movement

Postby CO Raven » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:14 pm

I think that 3% is pretty safe. 4 is ok but 5 would be potentially too much. The reason being is tanks. Using the movement path, tanks can essentially become 130/100s consistently on a d2d basis barring the intervention of things like forests in which they'll likely be able to dodge them enough to be 120/100. Since I'm assuming your're talking about all the numbers up from 3 to 4 or 5, that'd stack with the COP (I'll only mention that since the COP is stronger than the SCOP most of the time for this guy). Tanks have a movement of 6 so you'd get +30 and +10/+10. So effectively going at 170/110. That's rather large. Infantries would notably be 115/100 d2d which will place them with a good sized edge and on cop, 140/110. Not the best but certainly not too shabby, considering that his real strengths fall around the long moving stuff like tanks. He notably does not suffer for indirects and they even technically work with his cop, each of the two main ones receiving +35/+10. That's not bad at all. So 3% looks good for a flavorful medium tier and 4% if you want a semi high tier. Just don't bump up to 5 unless your goal is to thrash those that aren't the broken 5.

Also, the SCOP could be given some more oomph. There's almost no cases where I'd use it instead of the cop.
CO Raven
Anti-Air
Anti-Air
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:38 am

Re: New CO based on Movement

Postby Mori » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:57 pm

I love this CO so much. Passive Innate (Or D2D ability) is fantastic, and the CO Power is fantastic. The Super CO Power feels a bit weak right now, as said before. Not bad, just weak. Currently thinking of ways to fix that, but the rest of the CO is extremely cool and unique.
Image
User avatar
Mori
Tank
Tank
 
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:01 pm
Location: Alimango Island

Re: New CO based on Movement

Postby matchet » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:58 am

Awww <3 Thanks a lot for that lot of oppinion and ideas for this CO.
@Mori: Yes, Its just what I want: an original and non-used way to play, with unique mechanic (passive innate)

@theether: I would be really happy if you want to take my CO and include it on your proyect <3 <3 Just, please keep the lore untouched as much as you can, and notify me when you make your proyect publicy.

@CO Raven: Exactly. 4% is, imo, too potentially powerfull for some units like tanks or scouts.


About CO and SuperCO Power: I will explain it a bit and then modify it:
Passive inntate is designed to be a not-reliable bonus. high movement cost terrains reduces its potential. And maps with bottleneck difficult movement around these zones so you problably wont be able to get more than a 3-9% attack bonus from moves, which is fair for a normal cost's CO.

CO power is designed to make him a turn with realiable bonuses (even for indirect units). And CO SuperPower was designed to take him a way to move his units and break defense lines (f ex: on bottlenecks), but its true that isnt as strong as for worth 3 additional charge bar than normal CO.
So there is the change:
Co bar: [_][_][_][*]

Instead of making a really overpowered SuperPower, I modify the charge bar to exand Arzatros' players on strategy: now it is like if you have two normal CO powers. And you can decide what to use according to map status or your actual requirements: a realiable bonus or a strategic advance?



This is the First post'S CO Chart, Updated
(dunno why, but I cant edit my own posts WATTAFAK?!)
Arzatros
Co bar: [_][_][_][*]
Passive Innate, Wind Mastery: Every unit gain +3% bonus damage for each step that unit does that turn (for example, a soldier who moves 3 will get a +9% bonus to Attack if he attacks after moving)
Costs and Stats: Normal
CO Power [_]: Wind Strike: Units get +3% bonus damage for each MovePoint they have (for example, a Rocket got 3*5=15% additional bonus damage).
SuperCO Power [*] : Wind Barrier: Enemy Indirect Units lose 1 Attack range and Direct units get -10% Damage. Arzatros' units get +1 MovePoint


~~Lore~~
Country: Image Blue Moon
History: Born under a fiery storm, usual phenomena in Alderaan Island, he adquired an innate talent to control and use the wind. He likes face-to-face combats and allways fight with his giant sword Lohengrin.
Hit: Hurricanes
Miss: Good Time
matchet
Infantry
Infantry
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:52 am

Re: New CO based on Movement

Postby CO Raven » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:25 pm

I actually think 4% is ok. Here's why. Potentially, a tank can become a 124/100 if it moves all 6 squares. However, it must actually move those squares. Remember that advance wars mechanics make it so your movement can't overlap and for that same reason, you can't land on the same square that you started on. This forces the CO to move fast as any kind of standoff with mess things up. Not to mention the matter of odd terrains or even/odd squares. Tanks will also have a shorter longevity due to the need to constantly move. In addition, the buff does not apply in defense. So when attacking, you're 124/100 at best. When defending, you're always 100/100 when not in cop or scop. I'd compare it to a CO like Max. While Arzatros can use indirects, they are mostly ineffective as they do not benefit from his d2d. So more usable than Max but no real props. Now let's go to the direct side. 124/100 with tanks needing to be supported by cities or apcs that are 100/100s when not attacking vs 120/100s. Max has a slight edge here. For infantry units, there's an obvious edge with 112/100 on the attack. Mechs notably are only 108/100. Once again, defending only leaves him at 100/100. Now onto powers, this is where Max catches up. Tanks become 134/110 on defense and 158/110 on attack. Infantry become 134/110. This is sizable but Max gets up to 140/110 on tanks but has the critical +1 movement which I think is more important than the attack buff. Note that the difference again is only this large under best conditions. Then we come to the scop. Having been dropped to 4 stars, the scop now has a point. mitigating enemy range is semi useful and the movement is the only thing that makes it viable but the attack debuff is almost negligent. However, note that there's no attack buff. So tanks become 138/110s with +1 move on the attack. What does this looks like? Why, it looks like Max's COP.

In summation, I do not believe 4% is too much. I think its just right. Having Hawke infantry is nice but not gamebreaking. The way I see it, if one doesn't play him right, he's just bad. But if someone does it right, he's a more balanced Max that's a bit stronger. The fact that he's vanilla on defense is a big deal too. So I think he'd be safely in the "top tier" section and comfortably so but by no means broken. At 3%, I think I'd have trouble finding reasons to play him over Max. It might just be a taste of mine but I would rather make a custom a little stronger to unbalance things a bit rather than to make one almost strictly worse than an existing CO. At 3%, his d2d tanks will be weaker than Max and at cop, his damage will only be down to the point that it'll basically look like "Max's COP without the movement".
CO Raven
Anti-Air
Anti-Air
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:38 am

Re: New CO based on Movement

Postby matchet » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:19 am

@CO Raven first, thank you for the analysis.

Im really worry about making a broken CO, but you are right about numbers. However, Max cant use indirects while Arzatros can (which is a very important difference). Also, even indirects got a buff when on COpower. But if movement and advance is required instead, you can wait for one single star and use superCOpower to do it. Thinking about that double option, Arzatros is much more adaptative and have more ways to response than any other CO.

About 3% or 4% on his passive Innate, Wind Mastery: I agree with you, but I am not sure if change his COpower to 4% from 3% too. I think not, because this buff is allways active and affect all his units (and can stack with his passive). Then, yes, 4% on passive its fine
matchet
Infantry
Infantry
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:52 am

Re: New CO based on Movement

Postby CO Raven » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:18 pm

I'm aware of the matter of option but I think you'll often want both. I know that many a key Max play has been executed with the threat of his scop, something that Arzatros can't match. So there might be some versitality but it isn't like he isn't giving anything up. And even if he goes off first, he cannot overextend without risking the opponent shooting off a counter cop or scop. Since he has only either movement or power. Notably, a vanilla CO tank attacking against a Max tank while he's in COP ends in 6 hp on each side if they're on plains or forests and 6 hp vs 7 hp if both on cities. Whereas going against Arzatros's allows them to get numbers like 7-5 and 7-6. This is a decisive difference because it makes Max able to be more reckless. With his innate buff, if an enemy goes after his overextended tanks after he's done his big charge, they will suffer more hits and if they don't finish each one off, he'll just keep attacking and create a more decisive charge.

On the matter of the indirects, I only slightly agree and here's why. Arzatroz may have his buffed but that only means that you can use them. It doesn't make it advisable and doesn't make them often useful. Tanks are a tempo unit. Arties are a control unit. Tanks go for fast games. Arties work to create lockouts. Arzatros's entire basis makes it so he works best in open warfare. Locks are not his thing and in a big standoff, he's in a big disadvantage. Since no one hit kills are happening most likely, aside md tank ones, Andy can outlast. A damage CO like Drake (notably messes up his fuel) or one like Olaf (also notably prevents him from countering because he messes up movement and thus also Arzatos's attack power) will wreck him in a standoff. So in the end, it'd be like giving Grit 100/100 tanks. While it'd be appreciated and situationally helpful, it isn't amazing and if games go well, you shouldn't even need to build one. That's about the right equivalent because there are occasionally some times where Grit would have really liked to have a decent tank... but not that often because he shouldn't need it. Likewise, there will be some times where Arzatros will need to dislodge a md tank or just hold a small area shortly while making a push. Tbh, the most likely relevant useage of an arty for Arzatros is breaking a pipe. Where Max's will be useless after (though I have managed to win the game with that arty in more than one occasion) Arzatros will be fine... but I find that use to be limited.

Oh yeah. Another thing. Another key difference between Arzatros's scop and Max's cop. Max can one hit infantries on plains with tanks. Arzatros can't. He comes close but he won't get it.

The cop I think matters a lot less than the d2d. Where the d2d allows him to make consistent plays, the cop is situational and he'll already be hitting hard. The 3 to 4 doesn't change any major one hit ko matchups that I saw either. So if it makes it look better to you, sure.
CO Raven
Anti-Air
Anti-Air
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:38 am


Return to Customization

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group