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Recon Specialist

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Recon Specialist

Postby Xaif » Mon May 07, 2012 1:56 pm

So I was thinking and there are actually very few COs who focus on specific units instead of broad unit classes. In fact only Sensei does with his powerful Bcopters (though I think Jake should have 110/100 tanks, Md tanks, neotanks and megatanks, but that's beside the point!). All other specialists have universal buffs, Sami's infantry, Jess' land units, Drake's navy etc. Probably because it's difficult to base your game around one or two specific units... though here is an idea for a CO based around the recon!

D2D
- 140/100 recons
- 100/100 other units

Power bar: **XXXX

COP
- 200/110 perfect movement recons
- 110/110 other units

SCOP
- 200/110 perfect movement recons
- Units attacked by recons become paralyzed
- 110/110 other units

Et voila. Let me elaborate. That enormous recon boost D2D doesn't seem that enormous when you look at the figures. Recons are really only made to attack infantry and indirects, even at 500/100 you're still worse off initiating an attack against a tank. So for the ones that matter, at 140 you get:

Infantry 70 → 98
Mech 65 → 91
Recon 35 → 49
APC 45 → 63
Artillery 45 → 63
Rockets 55 → 77

Most prominently it's very likely that you'll 1HKO any infantry with no terrain defence, a very nice perk. The other values are just nice boosts, though near certain 2HKO against APCs and artillery is a positive.

The COP is mainly to heavily dent the enemy infantry supplies, mountains aside, you're virtually guaranteed to 1HKO any infantry you attack. I priced it at 2 stars because I don't think it's quite worth 3... Lash gets perfect movement for everything at 4 stars, which is overpriced (granted there's a +50% attack boost to the recons too) and it's unlikely the player will have more than 3 recons in their army on an average sized map.

The SCOP is just the COP with an added feature. A really good added feature. I added the paralysis aspect to make the CO overall less situational, after all if all your boosts focus on attacking infantry and indirects then the enemy can simply spam tanks and easily win. With paralysis they can't do this as recons can put them out of action (counterattacks are nulled too). You have to realistically consider how viable it would be to have any more than 4 or 5 recons on your standard map.

So there we go, a recon specialist, what are your thoughts?

EDIT: Removed double movement recons during SCOP, reduced SCOP meter by one star.
Last edited by Xaif on Thu May 10, 2012 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Recon Specialist

Postby Abroxas » Mon May 07, 2012 2:17 pm

A nice idea, but I fear the heavy recon boosts during, especially during the CO powers, makes enemie's meatshields completely useless. The SCOP could be a real killer as well. I would neglect the paralyzing feature, maybe. Can't say how it would play out, might be that tank-focusing COs would still have the better of it.
If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.
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Re: Recon Specialist

Postby CO Raven » Mon May 07, 2012 2:32 pm

I think that the ability to wipe out meatshields that hard is a bit much.It isn't like this CO can't use other units effectively. It is effectively a vanilla CO with infantry and indirect hunting. It is true that tanks wipe out the recons... but at what price? The recon will come out faster than the tank and has opportunities to outrun and hit more infantries while the recon CO still builds tanks and especially arties themselves. What this CO does is screw with the capture phase and later create unit advantage with bang for your buck infantry hunting. With perfect movement, a recon can cross a whole front to poke at infantries. At 2x movement, they can cross even more. This creates a numerical advantage that's key to holding arty turtling tactics while the tank game doesn't suffer at all either.

This CO is strong on any maps with random roads obviously which makes the d2d more effective. Not a bad idea overall. Just needs some flavor tweaking and good choice on not choosing the tank as the single unit. That's be a facepalm.

Side note, I agree about Jake for all his tank talk. He talks about them a whole lot for a CO who doesn't even get a buff for them, even more than Max.
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Re: Recon Specialist

Postby zaaps1 » Tue May 08, 2012 1:51 pm

Yeah I would definitely say you're creating a strong CO here that would alter the capture phase quite a bit and even after by thinning out meatshields. Given that, it seems a little too generous to hand out vanilla units. Perhaps decrease the effectiveness of all non-recon, non-infantry to 90/100? Sami has 130/100 infantry and 90/100 other directs on top of the capture bonus so imo that's pretty balanced. Although in late-game situations it would make this CO a little weak.

Could either keep it that way and thus focus the CO's playstyle on fast, aggressive play in the beginning of the game, or grant him 100/100 indirects which would probably go a long way to making him more playable in the endgame when infantry aren't everywhere.

Also, it seems odd for a recon specialist not to have bonus vision, but that's probably not in the agenda anyways :p
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Re: Recon Specialist

Postby Walker » Wed May 09, 2012 5:52 am

I think it's a solid idea. Recons are totally useless after the capture phase right now, and this would make them semi-relevant I think. The high attack boost is necessary, because they still get torn apart by pretty much anything with a cannon.

The only thing I don't like is the double movement on SCOP -- that's a bit much. Perfect movement is enough already, in my opinion.
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Re: Recon Specialist

Postby CO Raven » Wed May 09, 2012 4:50 pm

Walker, the double movement isn't even what'd ridiculous about the scop. Go read the fine print. They attack, stun (skipping the next move and ability to even counter), and have perfect movement. It begs to be used with an advance of arties.
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Re: Recon Specialist

Postby Xaif » Thu May 10, 2012 3:44 pm

That 140 D2D is absolutely necessary, as Walker says recons are pants outside of the capture phase with their only redeeming feature being their vision in fog of war. The point I was trying to make with the 500% attack power comparison in the OP was to highlight how crappy they really are - even with ridiculous attack power like that they don't gain any new beneficial matchups - a tank will still maul you on the counter. I showed exactly what the recon will deal to units that matter and the major benefit is the 1HKO to infantry on roads and shoals. I think you need to consider exactly what that 140% grants recons rather than looking at the 140% as a standalone figure because by D2D standards 140 IS a huge boost. But look at the numbers, it's a still a 2HKO against any infantry with 1 star defence or greater. It's a still a 2HKO on capturing infantry as with ordinary bland COs. How does this mess with the capture phase too much exactly? The only prominent difference is 1HKO to infantry on roads and shoals, in any other circumstance you'll need another unit to mop it up.

Perhaps decrease the effectiveness of all non-recon, non-infantry to 90/100? Sami has 130/100 infantry and 90/100 other directs on top of the capture bonus so imo that's pretty balanced. Although in late-game situations it would make this CO a little weak.

Sami has those direct stats mainly because of her capture bonus, not because of her 130/100 infantry. The capture bonus alone is what makes Sami so brutal - any lower tier unit that attacks one her capturing infantry will fail to stop a 2 day capture. 90/100 units would cripple this guy, 140/100 recons simply don't compare to that privilege.

Upon reflection regarding the SCOP I think it has a tendency to be far too good in some cases, and totally useless in others (or at least not 7 stars of worth) so I'd rather reduce the star limit and remove to double movement along with it.

You really have to consider here how viable it is to have an armada of recons and not have your ass handed to you on a plate. Spam recons and the enemy will destroy you with a couple of tanks, so it's really not a viable strategy. You should have more than the average Joe, but like I say it's unlikely you'll have more than 4 or 5. So the potential to paralyse 4 or 5 units for a day? (Comparing to Von Bolt's power is most accurate). In addition to the perfect movement it should be no more than 6 stars.

As a side note, I didn't increase the vision of recons because vision is impossible to keep balanced in and out of fog. =)
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Re: Recon Specialist

Postby Walker » Thu May 10, 2012 4:55 pm

Yes, I agree that paralyzing units isn't such a big deal. I would like to see the attack bonus reduced slightly though, as 200 attack is enough to OHKO infs on cities, quite powerful. Even 180 or 190 attack is still pretty devastating, and I think that's more reasonable.

Even with all of the buffs this CO gives to recons, I still think he'd be at most mid-tier. Recons can't replace tanks in terms of vehicles, and if you start trying to build lots of recons, you'll lose out on vehicle count pretty hard. He's certainly not better than someone like Olaf, whose SCOP is so much more devastating.
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Re: Recon Specialist

Postby GhostCalib3r » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:59 am

I actually think this CO is one of the more balanced ones. The likes of lower tier COs like Max and Olaf still cripple him completely but his ability to split open stall with decimating meatshields seems like a good idea. Tanks still hardcounter him, and the paralyzing feature is needed if any tank onslaught is to be avoided.

I worry however that he might be able to run away too effectively with 8 move and no terrain penalties... seems Sturm-situationally broken type imo.
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Re: Recon Specialist

Postby airob » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:06 pm

It´s not like this CO will have a map flooding with recons. At much 5 or 6. Otherwise he wouldnt have anything else.
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