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Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Talk about custom COs, units, classes, weapons or anything else.

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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby Hellraider » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:54 am

theether wrote:
Hellraider wrote:Elements like CO units/zones, local towers and veteran units will shift the game more towards tactics

What is your definition of strategy/tactics?
I always conceived tactics as steps towards the strategic goal (like HQ-Capture or killing all enemy units) whereas a tactical goal would be something smaller, like capturing a contested property or strengthen one front over another.
In my opinion more distinct opportunities for action would make both, strategy and tactics more interesting, not tactics alone.


In my book, tactics are the calculations you do when playing AW, such as to determine how to break through a wall or to arrange your own wall. Compared to that I call the overarching game plans you only need if the opponent does not make any tactical mistakes strategy. If I were to simplify it, tactics is everything that you can actually calculate, and strategy is everything beyond that. Adding a lot of small details will make calculations more complex, and while that does not technically remove strategy, it puts it more out of our reach because the actual combat becomes more complicated. That in turn makes it harder for players to reach a situation where they need consider more of the future than just the following turn. Currently I'd estimate that 95% of league games are decided by tactics already, with players able to make up for inferior strategic choices like building the wrong units or fighting on the wrong front by simply outplaying their opponent.

It is not my intention to advise you to not include those elements, I only want to express my view on the consequences they might have for the gameplay.
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby theether » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:13 pm

Thanks for the clarification :)
I get it that more choices obstruct the view on long term development, as it becomes harder to foresee your opponent's moves.
The only answer i have to that is, that elements like local towers and a vet system don't have to be included in maps / are toggable.
That way you could start a 'minimalistic' game with more emphasis on strategy, while a game with all features on would indeed be shifted towards tactics.

We appreciate every bit of information we can get about how specific features could turn out, as it prevents us from making more mistakes than needed,
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Postby DullPheonix » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:33 pm

I understand the security concerns and code annotation, but you should know that the AW community split a long time ago.
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby theether » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:15 pm

I won't have much time to program this month due to the tests this semester, so the project probably won't progress during that time.
Right now we're at a point where maps can be created and edited and simple games can be started, however it's not possible to make any moves.

On the other hand, this month can be used to further discuss concepts and features you want to see in the game.

By the way, would you guys like AI opponents?
They probably won't be very clever, but good enough for the zombie games i often see in waiting public.
At least that level should be possible :)
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Postby DullPheonix » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:05 am

Are you aiming for a single or multi-player focus? I imagine an AI would be far more important for the former.
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby theether » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:18 am

We are focusing on a competitive multiplayer.
However, there will have to be a small tutorial for those not familiar with turn based strategy.
The most important features and COs should be explained there.

We will form this into a small single player campaign (maybe 5 missions?), so as I'm already at it i could easily create the possibility to include AI in normal games as well.
The question is wether anybody would even like this feature, as the AI will be far from human capabilities.

Capturing, moving forward and attacking brainlessly are easy to do, that's why my example was a zombie survival. :)

The AI would be a feature mainly implemented after the first beta is out, so it won't delay the release date.
It's more like a little extra after the game is published for a while
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby BullGooseAnon » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:09 pm

AI is a waste of time no one that downloads this will give one s*** about the AI - all the noobs, and new players to the series(and really how many are of these now days?) would be better off play on the carts. If this is to have any chance of being played it should be focused on the core competitive players, because lets be honest we're the only ones that'll be downloading this to play. Better yet it should be hosted through the web browser like AWBW.

And megauploads doesn't work anymore... =/
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby BullGooseAnon » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:19 pm

Better idea yet - change it enough to get around copy right laws and upload it on android/iphone market with online/correspondance and everything like my chess.com app. I see a huge seller here.
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby theether » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:30 pm

This project has already made quite a change since this topic was created by Mori.

We're now programming it as a flash game hosted through a web browser.
Also, it'll be different enough from AW, so copy right shouldn't affect us.

As it will be unlike AW as you suggested, we'll at least need AI for some tutorial campaign anyway.
The question here is wether it should be usable in normal games or not.
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby headphone » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:01 pm

I think some AI options could have some use for serious maps.
I can think of a few cool gimmicks for AI controlled units, like landlocked landers to act like pipe seams that can be used on any terrain type or units placed as punching bags for COP charges.
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Postby DullPheonix » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:21 pm

Considering the existence of AWBW, I doubt copyright will be an issue, so long as no money is made on it.

So, how will map making be handled?
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby theether » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:52 am

headphone wrote:I think some AI options could have some use for serious maps.
I can think of a few cool gimmicks for AI controlled units, like landlocked landers to act like pipe seams that can be used on any terrain type or units placed as punching bags for COP charges.

That's some good ideas, we didn't think of, yet.
Thanks for the input :D

DullPheonix wrote:Considering the existence of AWBW, I doubt copyright will be an issue, so long as no money is made on it.

Ads will be included in the game (among others to get the money we need to pay for the server).
As the graphic, units and some terrain will be much unlike AW, i doubt that we could be sued.
AW can't have the copyright on Turn Based Strategy, I'd say

DullPheonix wrote:So, how will map making be handled?

After registering you can create up to 50 maps in sizes 5x5 up to 50x50.
The map editor currently looks like this:

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The 17 (well, currently 15) colored squares in the top right stand for the different countries, as there will be 16 players maximum on one map (+neutral)
All of the graphic in the image will probably be changed until the game can be played publically, though.
I hope this answers your question. :)
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby Mori » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:12 pm

Updates! Woooooo.

AHC CO List

In AHC, each CO will have one or more Innate Abilities. They receive these on their first turn, and keep them for the rest of the game. However, once in game, the player will be able to decide between two different selections of CO Passive and Active abilities, known as a Red pick or a Blue pick. Red picks tend to focus on less costly abilities, whereas Blue picks tend to focus on more costly but more powerful abilities. You cannot use any CO Passives or Actives until you pick one, and once you pick Red or Blue in game, you will only be able to use the Passives and Actives from that pick. Every CO can have up to 8 bars of CO meter maximum.

To use these abilities, you must build up CO meter, divided into several bars.

  • Passives automatically activate once you have the required number of bars, and do not consume any bars to use. However, if your meter ever falls below the Passive’s requirement, you lose the Passive.
  • Actives cost a specific amount of CO bars, and will consume that amount on use. Actives generally last for only 1 turn.

Skillful use of these abilities, and thinking around what your opponents will use, will go a long way in winning a game of AHC. Part of the game will include players making educated guesses as to whether their opponent will go Red or Blue pick, based on their CO choice and what abilities they see their opponent utilizing.

Important Note: Currently, every CO can have up to 8 bars of CO meter maximum.

Important Note: These are only ideas, and are not expected to be perfectly balanced yet. All names are placeholders.

Important Note: CO Units will be addressed at a later date. Yes, I am still a big fan of that concept.

-----

The Hierarchy
Values strength, bloodlines, will to survive, and self sufficient people.
Does not value unnecessary freedom, or standing up for the weak.

Li
Theme - Urban Defense
Innate Ability - Hometown Advantage: +30/+00 for all her units on cities.
Red
  • 0 bar (Passive) - For the Hierarchy: Additional +1 hp repair for units on cities.
  • 5 bar (Active) - Counter Offensive: Fully repairs all units on cities.
Blue
  • 4 bar (Passive) - Iron Will: Additional +00/+10 for units on cities.
  • 8 bar (Active) - Unbreakable: Additional +10/+40 for all units on cities for 1 turn.

Benton
Theme - Long Range, Command Efficiency
Innate Ability - Keen Eye: 120/100 indirects, 90/100 air units.
Red
  • 0 bar (Passive) - Doctrine Mobility: All “Vehicle” class units give off a 2 tile radius aura, giving themselves and allied units in range +10/+00. This buff does not stack.
  • 5 bar (Active) - Doctrine Initiative: The “Vehicle” aura is buffed to +40/00 instead of +10/+00 for 1 turn.
Blue
  • 2 bar (Passive) - Prepared Positions: Additional +0/+10 for indirects.
  • 7 bar (Active) - Toxic Barrage: All indirect units do 40% of their damage as splash damage on tiles next to the targeted unit, both horizontally and vertically (but not diagonally) for one turn.

Grendel
Theme - Cold Scientist
Innate Ability - Assimilate: +50 funds for every 1 damage done to an enemy unit, 90/110 all units.
Red
  • 4 bar (Passive) - Consume and Devour: Any enemy unit killed gives him an additional +500 funds.
  • 5 bar (Active) - Paradigm Shift: +50/-20 on all units but Marines and Raiders for one turn.
Blue
  • 8 bar (Active) - Paradox Spiral: Fires a single 3x3 missile at the enemy’s greatest accumulation of units that does 4 damage on each unit hit and freezes all enemy units in its range, stopping those units from moving on the next enemy turn. This does not stop them from attacking, or from returning fire if attacked.


Minerva
Theme - Air Commander, Air Raids
Innate Ability - Queen of the Skies: 110/110 air units.
Red
  • 2 bar (Passive) - Flight Academy: +10/+00 for her air units.
  • 6 bar (Active) - Aced: +40/+00 and +2 movement for her air units for one turn.
Blue
  • 8 bar (Active) - Carpet Bomb: Deals 3 damage to all enemy units on cities. The opponent’s income is halved on their next turn (they earn only 50% of their fund income for 1 turn).

Belial
Theme - Relentless Offense, Mass Damage
Innate Ability - Unstoppable: All units gain +0.5% attack power for every 1% health they are missing. +10/+00 for his Marines and Raiders. Repairs are completed at 50% the normal rate on cities for all units.
Red
  • 1 bar (Active) - Break Them: Additional +20/+00 for Marines and Raiders, 1 hp damage done to his own Marines and Raiders.
  • 4 bar (Active) - Rip and Tear: Additional +40/+00 for Marines and Raiders, +1 movement for all units, 1 hp damage done to his own Marines and Raiders.
Blue
  • 7 bar (Active) - Leviathan: 2 hp damage done to every enemy unit on the field and 1 hp damage done to his own Marines and Raiders.

-----

The Confederacy
Values free speech, protecting the weak, democratic government
Does not value oppression, or government through strength

Eloise
Theme - Medical Healing, Medical Sabotage
Innate Ability - Humanitarian: Repairs cost 25% less for all units.
Red
  • 0 bar (Passive) - Increased Medical Funding: Repairs cost 25% less for all units (This stacks with Humanitarian).
  • 3 bar (Active) - First Aid: 2 hp healing for all of her units.
Blue
  • 3 bar (Passive) - Tear Gas: Enemy units have -00/-10 on cities.
  • 6 bar (Active) - Sweet Poison: 2 hp damage done to every enemy Marine and Raider on the field and 1 hp healing for her own Marines and Raiders.

Ajax
Theme - Ground Vehicles, Defense against Indirects
Innate Ability: 120/100 for all “Armor” class direct combat units. 80/100 indirects.
Red
  • 2 bar (Passive) - Reinforced Armor: +10% increased defense against indirect attacks for all units.
  • 6 bar (Active) - 6000 Hulls: +00/+20 and +20% increased defense against indirect attacks for all units for 1 turn.
Blue
  • 4 bar (Active) - Not a Chance: Additional +10/+10 and + 1 movement for all “Armor” class direct combat units for 1 turn.
  • 8 bar (Active) - Steamrolled: Additional +20/+10 and +2 movement for all “Armor” class direct combat units for 1 turn.

Freya
8 bars
Theme - Winter, Mass Damage
Innate Ability - Frozen Heart: Immune to snow, +20/+0 for all units in snow.
Red
  • 0 bar (Passive) - Frozen Fist: Additional +10/+10 for all units in snow.
  • 4 bar (Active) - Cold Snap: Changes weather to snow for 1 turn.
Blue
  • 4 bar (Active) - Hail: 1 hp damage done to all enemy units on all terrain except for units on roads and bridges.
  • 8 bar (Active) - Winter Malice: Changes weather to snow for 1 turn, 2 hp damage done to all enemy units except for units on roads and bridges.

Ryker
8 bars
Theme - Wealth, Combat Inexperience, Air Technology
Innate Ability - Superior Technology: -10/-00 all ground units (not including Marines and Raiders), +20/+00 all air units, +100 funds per city.
Red
  • 5 bar (Passive) - Improved Armaments: All ground units, not including Marines and Raiders, gain +10/+00.
  • 5 bar (Active) - Spare no Expense: Immediately gains 50% of his current income as additional funds.
Blue
  • 2 bar (Active) - Afterburner: +1 movement for his air units for 1 turn.
  • 8 bar (Active) - Money Over All: Gains +3% attack power per 1000 funds he currently owns for 1 turn.

-----

Important Note: Currently, every CO can have up to 8 bars of CO meter maximum.

Important Note: These are only ideas, and are not expected to be perfectly balanced yet. All names are placeholders.

Important Note: CO Units will be addressed at a later date. Yes, I am still a big fan of that concept.

Feedback is always nice.
Last edited by Mori on Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DullPheonix » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:35 pm

What method will be used to build meters?
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Re: Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

Postby Mori » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:08 pm

It's likely going to be very similar to the existing AWBW system, detailed here:

Denoted as xxxXXXX where x = small star and X = big star..for now.
Every star is worth 9000 fund at the start of the game. Each additional use of CO Power(including SCOP) increase the value of each star by 1800 fund up to the tenth usage, when it won't increase any further.

Stars on your Charge Meter can be charged in two ways:

Damaging your oppoent's units. You gain meter equal to half the fund damage you deal.
Receiving damage from your opponent. You gain meter equal to the fund damage you take.
Keep in mind that AWBW only keeps track of real numbers for the purpose of Charge Meter calculation. That means taking a 57% attack and ending up with 5 hp only adds 0.5*full cost of unit to your Charge Meter.
In Summary, the amount of charge added to your meter can be calculated as:

(0.5*0.1*Damage Dealt*Cost of Unit X)+(0.1*Damage Received*Cost of Unit Y)


It should be noted that a COs meter does not charge during the turn they activate a power.


However, we may not be following this exact formula. I would like to keep some of the base mechanics common in many AW style games, including the inability to charge meter during any given time they use an Active ability. AHC originally calculated not on the fund value of the damage, but rather on the value of the damage itself, regardless of the value of the unit. This meant that destroying an infantry unit net you the same meter as destroying a tank. At this time I do not think we will be using that system. Expect something more similar to AWBW.
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