Competitive Advance Wars Modification (Online Capable)

[Mori]

That would be fantastic, and I really do mean that. It would also be fantastic if you'd be willing to use Skype, since voice chat makes coordination on this kind of stuff much easier. I should really put that in the last post. I think voice chat would be almost required for organizing games. If you can't that's fine too, but even just joining a call without a mic so Kat and I can use voice and you can type would be helpful. We tend to use Skype 4.2.0.187 since that's right before Skype became terrible, but any other version would probably work. Kataiser would do the testing, but he'll be plenty busy handling all the potential edits. The faster we can get this all done and into a solid competitive state, the better.

I've actually taken the time to make this post mainly because I don't have work at all this week, so I have four solid days to get this kind of stuff done, which is exciting. It's really the only reason I'm up at 6 am right now, I probably won't be sleeping much this week. And yeah, some of the CO units are very good. That's one of the things we want to test. Right now, with the way that you can currently buy them, their CO power prices might be significantly upped.

I'll work on setting up an easy download. Oh right also, you'll want the latest version of Java, just in case you happen to have an older version.





There's two different tilesets, one for AWDS and one for Custom Wars, I just was using the Custom Wars one for the screenshots to stay consistent. Also, pre-game stuff.

[Mr--Clean]

Good news is I was actually able to download it (which really surprised me considering it failed when I tried past times) and I have a mic. Bad news is I had to download an even older version than yours, version 2.8. Not sure if that will be a problem or not.

Oh also im running of off an old mac. Not sure if that will be a problem either.

[Mori]

We actually got a solid artist on the team today, and I have prizes in store for the future winner of the AHC tournament. Good stuff. I'll be PMing the potential testers with our current build of the game soon, don't worry, things have been really busy over here. For now, if you do plan on using Skype, which would be wonderful for coordination, my Skype name is Kwang-11 (An old reference to a mostly forgotten strategy game). Just send a friend request my way explaining who you are so I know who it is.

[zaykho]

Why choose to revive a dead project in JAVA ???

I mean, now with HTML5 + JS (or THREE.JS if you want more), you can barely make a game that everybody can play like a flash or C,C++ game.

Plus, if you make the project open source you can let everyone help you very quickly.

HTML is cross platform (Linux,windows,mac,android etc...) + it's a very easy language (everyone can understand a simple line of code).....

So why ?!?!?!?!


I'm web-designer and I can easily help you to revive this project by re-build this entire game in HTML5 + JS, with this, you will have a lot, lot, lot more participant to help you.


ps: I'm bored of the yellow flashy background of AWBW, I'm making a black night theme for AWBW with Stylish, I will upload soon my work. I think that people who love play at night will be happy. :p

[Thiediev]

I don't think the "one obsessive tester" model is going to work out very well. Sounds like an easy way to be caught by surprise when a larger playerbase comes along and discovers a bunch of stuff you never would have envisioned with your limited number of perspectives.

What you should probably do is hold tournaments immediately, and make it clear that the game is in an imbalanced testing phase. If you have a core group of people (or even just one person) who understand the core "flavor" and philosophy of the game and have the discipline to uphold it, all you need is a group of lab monkeys to beat the s*** out of it for you until you mold it into something playable.

The problem is getting those lab monkeys in the first place. The first step is actually reaching out to WWN and its IRC (which is where I believe the DoR crowd hangs out these days). That'll probably actually be really difficult because everyone is jaded when it comes to these projects, and the DoR crowd is generally not receptive to non-DoR things. Even they could be attracted if you like, gave out a prize or something. Just something to incentivize them to kick the crap out of your game for a bit.

I guess the main point here is that making a strong competitive game is going to require legitimate competition. It's fine if the game is broken at first, you just need to be up-front about it.


As for the game itself, I'm not a fan of how the Spec Ops unit is clearly just a response to outdated metagame issues, and the Convoy/IFV redundancy is weird. Like, both units are probably fairly useful, but that doesn't mean they're distinct in a particularly interesting way.

But whatever, that doesn't matter! It's probably fun, and if it's broken it'll be fun to break it. I'll try to download this and see if I can get it working and mess around with it a bit, and hopefully play some games with some people. Like whatever why not!

[Walker]

Why would he reach out to WWN when the game is very similar to AWBW and there's an active AWBW community?

[Thiediev]

The real question is "why would you not reach out to WWN?" They're the only extant, serious AW community other than AWBW. Take advantage of them.

[Walker]

Sure, it's a good idea. But I wouldn't call it the "first step".

Also, wanted to point out that trying to get a team of dedicated testers together isn't really a "one obsessive tester model". I think Mori is pretty much doing the right thing with the game as it is.

[Thiediev]

I just think that competitive players are going to break the game whether or not a team of 2-4 testers spend 6 hours a day on it; there's just so much to account for. I see a lot of system and balance changes here, and only one needs to be abusable for the game to be torn limb from limb. Might as well embrace that and let your players be your testers.

[Mori]

Right now, the game has fundamental game play problems, not balance problems. And yes, if you want to be technical, game play problems are also balance problems. I would love to host a tournament, with possible prizes, as soon as possible.

I really would.

But in short, this is why there isn't a competition going right now. There are several mechanical problems in game right now (transporting units and the "reinforce" ability of some units being the biggest offenders) that do not work as the developers intended them. I suspect that there will be more problems as testing continues. The testers that have been helping me (you know who you are) have been unbelievably helpful. Really. They've found bugs like crazy. Now, I need someone who can fix the bugs. Kataiser is very busy with other projects, so I've basically been teaching myself Java instead of working on other stuff. Now, if there'd be someone who was knowledgeable in Java, and willing to work with me to fix the problems, I'm totally up for that, but most people around here that know enough about Java are also very busy with their own individual projects.

So, as it stands right now, the importance is on bug testing, and not balance testing. In general, the plan is:



1) Early testing with a small group of people, specifically for finding as many bugs as possible. Prioritize on bugs, not balance problems.

2) Myself, or ideally another talented programmer, fixes the bugs to the best of their abilities.

3) Retest for bugs with original small group of people, go back to Step 2 if necessary.

4) Design open tournament for balance testing, including times, maps, unit and CO bans if necessary. Prioritize on settings that will test balance, not bugs, but both are important.

5) Host tournament, record every bit of information possible.

6) Review tournament data.



Right now, we're moving into Step 2 territory. I'm willing to hear suggestions on how else to go about this, but I personally don't see a better way to do it. This plan is slower, but ensures that the game won't be a broken and unplayable mess come Step 4 and 5. As always, if you have suggestions or ideas for how to assist the revival of this game, you are always welcome to help out. Just understand that my primary concerns right now is finding people willing to work (which has mostly been solved already) and finding people with programming knowledge who are, again, willing to work. I don't care about balance if we can't get the base game to work properly. Balance is actually a secondary concern to me. If you could see the engine itself, and the way it is constructed, you'd see that after whoever is programming this gets the gist of bug fixing, editing values for balance will actually be very easy, and the data to support those edits will come naturally from the tournament. The tournament won't happen until basic game breaking bugs are fixed. Basic game breaking bugs won't be fixed until I have a programmer with free time for this project. So that is what I'm concerned about right now, and that is why I like these kinds of systems for projects. Everything is nice and organized in an environment where the design team has control during all the steps they should have control over, and relinquishes control only when the previous necessary steps have been fulfilled properly.

As always, I appreciate the suggestions. I read everything that is posted here in a fairly timely manner, even when at work.

[theether]

Hey there Mori,
I'm studying Informatics in Germany and would be willing to help programming after this semester's finals (last at August 11th).
In university we mostly work with java anyway, but I've also learned sql and some flash, if this might help, but first I'd want to ask some questions:
Are there legal issues publishing an AW-similar game?

We actually got a solid artist on the team today

So Ad Hoc Commander won't use these AW graphics like in the preview when finished, will it?
Will this game make money somehow? In flash ads could be shown while loading, for example.
Well, I just don't want to have a lawyer suddenly knocking on my frontdoor
I hope it's not a problem being German, though this'll result in a shorter timeframe to work together

[Narts]

Why would he reach out to WWN when the game is very similar to AWBW and there's an active AWBW community?

-The original developer of this project (me) is active there.
-The game is not actually that similar to AWBW. the balancing and unit lineup is based more closely on AW4 and all the AW4 experts are on WWN.

But in the end it's up to them who they reach out to if anyone, it's their project now and their choosing what they do with it.

In any case they're doing wisely by keeping the development mostly behind closed doors. One of the main mistakes of Custom Wars was letting too many chefs into the kitchen, and not enough organisation and focus. If your team, particularly your design team, is too big you'll just end up with lots of noise and nothing getting done.

[Mori]

In case people wonder what happened with this project, it's still happening, I just find that sometimes it's nice to give projects some time to breathe. Cuts down on drama and whatnot. Theether has kind of been amazing and is remaking an AW ish engine from scratch, so there's that going on. Doing a bit of CO design right now, ironing out what's interesting and what isn't interesting for COs in a competitive environment. I work on a bunch of stuff at once, so don't expect this to be finished any time soon, but it is being worked on.

[JakeSamiRulz]

Out of interest, Mori, what is your project being coded in? Is it Java or something else?

With Commander Wars going under, I believe that this project could be one of the last ones being worked on. Anyway, I support your project all the way. I hope that you have better luck than I am balancing the CO's ...

[theether]

The game is coded in Actionscript 3 (Flex), with php and mysql on the server side.
We hope to make all of our COs about equally strong (as far as that's even possible), but wether we're successful at that will only extensive testing show us.
The same goes for units