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Tips in making High Fund map

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Tips in making High Fund map

Postby blozzee » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:19 pm

I think I just figure how to make High Fund where CO like Grit, Sensei and Colin turns non broken. Things that need to consider in the map I'd already list it out what kind of map design it should be.

1. Map should be relatively small size map
- This is important to get the game balance against production of indirect unit so that they can't get it placed securely by the pressure from direct unit. A size where each opponent unit will face at least after one movement to where it is close enough between each other.

2. Significant amount of space at the front
- there should be less obstacles like mountains at the front, clump terrain is forbidden. This will allow a good flow of direct unit getting opportunity to attack. High fund map is all about direct unit being the dominant.

3. Nerf the properties
- This is for the sake of sensei, most of map maker here wouldn't care about about this and banned him. But in order to use Sensei fairly he need to be nerf. I would suggest leave 3 empty ghost unit on properties in each front per side if there are multiple fronts. But if there's only one front, just leave 4 empty ghost unit only per side.

4. 1 base & 1 airport > 2 bases
- Don't ever design where the first player got 2 bases against second player with an airport and a base. I learn my mistake, obviously the one with airport will roll out the 2 bases with bombers without a problem. Even an AA can get owned by copters, why not bombers? Which is why I would prefer put the airport far away from preown base so that it would be more balance.

PS: I haven't design a good High fund map yet, but these are the idea I got from numerous play test I did on verity of maps.
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby ichbinsehselber » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:59 am

Your post is a good start for a discussion.

I think I would disagree in 2 points:
4. are you talking about fta counter here? Are you saying that owning the airport earlier is better than owning the base earlier?
If yes, I think it is the other way round. The 2 bases are better than the 1 base and an airport. You usually cannot build a copter immediately even on high funds maps.

Also I think that Colin would be a great CO. Probably broken.
(True, you may be able to nerf sensei down by ghosting properties and you may also be able to nerf down Grit by making the map extra open.
The ghosting may even reduce the broken-ness of Hachi. But he will also be strong even if all cities are broken and he only uses COP.
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby blozzee » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:12 am

-Hachi will be broken no matter what. Having him to be able to build any unit somewhere in the middle is a big disadvantage.
-You can spam copters after at least 2-3 turn and it is a serious problem. Once AA is weaken by first attck with tank in any chance, copters will take over the rest very easily. I don't know about you but I've seen how bad AA got owned by copters before.
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby Felix45 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:16 am

what the hell are you talking about? Even sensei copter on COP doesn't want to attack AA....copters vs AA is one of the worst matchups in the game! really you can only use copters to finish off low HP AA units....by no means do copters "own" AA. That is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard. They can only just barley finish off low HP AA....and that is definitley not owning at all. That is like saying "ah yeah after you hit a tank on a city with 2 of your own 10hp tanks, tanks get owned by infantry". You don't win games by finishing off damaged AA units with bcopters.....you win games by having more funds, better positioning, and having more (and better) units.

Bcopter spam in HF games isn't a problem at all. if both sides can do it then how could it be a problem? He builds a bcopter, so do I. you can even mix in AA if you want.

and 1 base and 1 airport are not better than 2 bases ever....that is really stupid to say. If you would like, I will go design a HF map where we both start with 2 bases, and you can capture 2 neutral airports and I can capture 2 neutral bases if you want me to prove the point. Bases are WAY better than airports. you can build an 8k unit that strong counters air units, plus infantry, tanks, artillery, mechs, etc. etc.
from airport you can only build units that are strong countered by a unit that is much cheaper to build.
Again, I will gladly show you this if you like, I will go make a map to prove the point.
[23:09] <Gabo> hey guys, i have a question
[23:09] <Gabo> is it possible to transfer games from one account toanother on steam?
[23:09] <felix45> fire away lotion master
[23:10] <felix45> ROFL
[23:10] <Gabo> =_=
[23:10] <felix45> sorry I cant let that go :P
[23:10] <felix45> oh and I dont think so gabo
[23:10] <Gabo> the worst part is that i do like lotions <_<
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby Walker » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:34 pm

I agree with felix and ichbin.
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby blozzee » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:13 pm

Now could you explain why this player couldn't hold up to defend their bases at the bottom http://awbw.amarriner.com/replay.php?ga ... 1079&ndx=0 . Its true he's being noob but at least he should have able to holdup a fight against those copters. And it doesn't take very long for BD to get their bombers ready after spamming their copters.
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby Hellraider » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:25 pm

Because he didn't build from every base every turn, tried to counter the first copters with a missiles and then lost nearly all AA capability in one turn?
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby blozzee » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:21 pm

even if he build from every base in every turn, I still think the one air units have more edge of winning against the 2 basses. Here in high fund map 1k of a difference between AA doesn't mean anything since it is cost effective. In a trade how good copters can do maneuvers to get around ground unit, it is hard for AA to cover every threat of what copter can do. All it need is to weaken the AA with tanks then copter can take the rest to finish off any ground unit. The question is, how long can the 2 basses hold up the front until enemy bombers comes in?
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby Felix45 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:51 am

ROFL you think bombers are that OP? I will tell you what, I will remake that exact map, except give you the advantage! (according to you)
I will simply remove the airport on my side and make it into a base. that way you have 3 bases and 1 airport and I will have 4 bases.

oh, and hellraider is completely right as to why that guy lost.

Anyways, I am going to go make the map now, game link will be up when it is finished.

edit: I made the map. Didn't bother with roads or anything though, hope you don't mind (tried to make it as fast as possible)
also changed the position of airport and base. Other than that, same map.
If you want I can put airport and base to where they were, though you would sort of have to promise not to build a tank and disrupt my capture (the point of the game is to demonstrate 2base vs 1 base 1 airport, and if you can disrupt capture of either airport or base, that sort of nulls the reason why the game was even made)

game name: 4 bases
pass: gl
[23:09] <Gabo> hey guys, i have a question
[23:09] <Gabo> is it possible to transfer games from one account toanother on steam?
[23:09] <felix45> fire away lotion master
[23:10] <felix45> ROFL
[23:10] <Gabo> =_=
[23:10] <felix45> sorry I cant let that go :P
[23:10] <felix45> oh and I dont think so gabo
[23:10] <Gabo> the worst part is that i do like lotions <_<
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby Walker » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:12 pm

Unfortunately, test games like this never prove anything. I think we all know you are a better player than blozzee, felix, so you would probably win even if he was right and the airport+base was actually stronger. :wink:
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby Felix45 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:42 pm

sure they do! If airport really is that much better (like he is arguing) then he will be able to beat me no problem, because airport & base > 2 bases. I mean, that is the reason why that other guy lost right? He is going to start rolling out bombers, then I will be fucked, GG after that point! Never design maps like this because it is such an obvious auto-loss! Copters are going to easily take over and win! The 2 bases are at such a disadvantage that I simply can't win, bcopters own AA so I don't really stand a chance.

Didn't you know walker? It isn't funds, unit count, how good your units are, or positioning. it is all about bcopters and how they own AA. once you kill the AA with your bcopters it is GG!
[23:09] <Gabo> hey guys, i have a question
[23:09] <Gabo> is it possible to transfer games from one account toanother on steam?
[23:09] <felix45> fire away lotion master
[23:10] <felix45> ROFL
[23:10] <Gabo> =_=
[23:10] <felix45> sorry I cant let that go :P
[23:10] <felix45> oh and I dont think so gabo
[23:10] <Gabo> the worst part is that i do like lotions <_<
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby headphone » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:58 pm

blozzee wrote:2. Significant amount of space at the front
- there should be less obstacles like mountains at the front, clump terrain is forbidden. This will allow a good flow of direct unit getting opportunity to attack. High fund map is all about direct unit being the dominant.

While this can work for some maps, there should probably be some variation. Nothing wrong with maps with MD Tanks/Neos in mind, but there's also nothing wrong with maps with Arties/Rockets/Piperunners in mind, either.

Its probably even possible to make maps that favor MDs over Neos and vice versa.
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby Walker » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:48 pm

Felix45 wrote:sure they do! If airport really is that much better (like he is arguing) then he will be able to beat me no problem, because airport & base > 2 bases. I mean, that is the reason why that other guy lost right? He is going to start rolling out bombers, then I will be fucked, GG after that point! Never design maps like this because it is such an obvious auto-loss! Copters are going to easily take over and win! The 2 bases are at such a disadvantage that I simply can't win, bcopters own AA so I don't really stand a chance.

Didn't you know walker? It isn't funds, unit count, how good your units are, or positioning. it is all about bcopters and how they own AA. once you kill the AA with your bcopters it is GG!

I am literally suffocating in the sarcasm here.
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby Mr--Clean » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:59 am

Jeez bad day at work felix? Maybe he just got it mixed up with bombers or something. (they can 1HKO them)
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Re: Tips in making High Fund map

Postby Felix45 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:27 pm

lol.....nope, I just was never very nice dealing with these kinds of things. You should see some of my older posts talking about broken COs. I'm sure Smacky remembers.......hahaha
[23:09] <Gabo> hey guys, i have a question
[23:09] <Gabo> is it possible to transfer games from one account toanother on steam?
[23:09] <felix45> fire away lotion master
[23:10] <felix45> ROFL
[23:10] <Gabo> =_=
[23:10] <felix45> sorry I cant let that go :P
[23:10] <felix45> oh and I dont think so gabo
[23:10] <Gabo> the worst part is that i do like lotions <_<
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