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A Newer Map Maker

Critique and discuss the design maps on AWBW

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A Newer Map Maker

Postby headphone » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:58 pm

http://headphone.110mb.com/AWBW_Map_Maker.html

Inspired by Nyvelion's map maker, I decided to try and make my own.

Right now, some of the features that mine has that Nyvelion's does is: being able to hold your mouse down and edit tiles faster, saving and loading maps from text, symmetry, and a road/river/shoal fixer. Mine has some features that Nyvelion's doesn't, right now. They are:

Paint Brushes:
Just like in mspaint, you have access to different types of brushes (only 2 atm). A normal paintbrush that lets you edit a bigger area than the standard 1 square at a time method. And a spray paint, pretty much like the spray paint from ms paint, it edits squares randomly around where you pressed.

Place Holder Tiles:
You can place tiles on my map editor that Nyvelion's doesn't have (i.e. pipes, labs, comtowers). These are useful for planning out the map and make it easier to edit a map when you upload it. However, these tiles aren't saved, because the text uploader only supports some tiles. The tiles are converted to their closest conterparts.(Pipes into plains, labs and comtowers into cities.)

So that's pretty much the comparison of my map maker and Nyv's. I'm going to be working on this map maker for the next 2 or 3 weeks, so expect some updates. Here's a todo list I made so you'll know what to expect!

ToDo List (in no particular order):
[x] A nicer layout
[X] Make a symmetry function (inculding 'true' diagonal symmetry)
[] A random map generator
[x]A property counter
[]map resizing
[x] Road, etc. fixer
[] Shape drawer
[] More paintbrushes (ie paintbucket)
[] Uploading your maps directly from my editor to AWBW (if its possible)

Anyways, I hope you enjoy. Please use this thread to ask questions, make comments, and/or give suggestions about my map maker.

Also, I would like to thank Glen for convincing me to make the map storage array 2 dimensional instead of 1. That made things alot easier.
Another thanks to [jam] for saving me about 45 minutes of work. also the game
Last edited by headphone on Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby Walker » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:40 am

Looks very good, although very similar to Nyv's mapmaker, as you pointed out. The paintbrush option looks handy, that would certainly make things go a bit quicker. Is your mapmaker going to be able to make black tiles though? That's one of the main attributes of Nyv's mapmaker that the one on the site doesn't have.

Also, I think the most useful thing you could include would be a way to incorporate automatic rotational symmetry. Diagonal symmetry is nice, but rotational is much more widely used. I don't know if it'd be possible or not, but if you could manage that I swear I would only use your mapmaker haha.

It'd also be pretty cool if you could find a way to get them to upload directly to the site. Sounds like it may be a bit of stretch, but I say go for it anwyways.
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby headphone » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:47 pm

My mapmaker does have black-tile capabilities. As for the rotational symmetry, I'm actually working on that right now. It'll probably be finished today or tomorrow. Also, how would automated rotational symmetry work?
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby Walker » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:11 pm

Well when I make a map using rotational symmetry, I just start designing half of the map and then place the matching tiles on the opposite side as I go. So in my head, I imagine that automated rotational symmetry would just be where you place half of the tiles and the map-maker automatically fills in the other half for you as you go, except in a rotational pattern instead of diagonal.

So if you put in 5-6 forests for example, and click the "automatic rotational symmetry" button, it would calculate the vertical and horizontal distance of each tile from the center tile (or center tiles if the map has an even height or width? i really don't know how that would work) and then it would reproduce the tile on the other side by just changing both distances to their negative values. So you would just treat the center tile as the origin of the map, so to speak, and the rotational symmetry would just mirror the tiles around that.

I have no idea how easy or hard or impossible that is for you to do on the map-maker, since I know nothing about programming, but in my head it makes perfect sense and sounds totally doable haha.
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby ichbinsehselber » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:10 pm

Omg I like it! I really like it ! It is great!
What is best: It is working nicely and easily.

The interface is very intuitive and you can do what you want very quickly.

Cheers, headphone!

(Shame on me, I have to admit I have never managed to get the other one to work properly.)
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby ichbinsehselber » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:29 pm

Rotational symmetry is the same as symmetry on both X and Y axes.
To program rotational symmetry should not be too hard. Walkerboh already explained it. You basically imagine that the area is rotated 180 degrees.

To say it more in technical language:

You obviously need to define a 1 to one relationship between source and destination tiles
Lets say you have map size X times Y. Assuming that both X and Y are even numbers for now.
If you define the top half of the map as the source and the lower half of the map as the destination, then you if you have for each source tile
Xs,Ys (where Ys < Y/2) a destination tile Xd, Yd (where Yd > Y/2)
The terrain from the source square Xs,Ys gets gets copied to (X+1-Xd), (Y+1-Yd)

This works under the assumption that you are numbering the squares starting from 1 to X and from 1 to Y.
If you are numbering from 0 to X-1 and from 0 to Y-1 you have to simply change it by one:
The terrain from the source square Xs,Ys gets gets copied to (X-Xd), (Y-Yd)
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby headphone » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:05 pm

I understand what rotation symmetry is, I said I didn't understand what AUTOMATED rotation symmetry is.
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby ichbinsehselber » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:08 am

Automated rotational symmetry means that the user can simply press a button and the system automatically calculates the results by applying rotational symmetry.
Probably the user should also be able to define either top -> bottom or right -> left or the other way round
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby Ian_the_pro » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:44 am

Nice to see that you didn't php the whole thing so we can see what you did


and on a very related note, my map editor is going to have an update soon! I fixed the super lag and have a better gui , what more could you ask for ? :cry: :evil: :roll: :wink: :mrgreen: :D :shock: :lol: :roll:
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby Harti » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:44 pm

@ichbinsehselber: Are you from Germany? Your username pretty much implies that. Might even know you. :P


Regarding the map maker - well, I like it but I can't figure out its surplus value above Nyv's tool. There's rarely use for drawing 2x2 tiles or even shapes... let alone random tiles within some certain diameter.
It's a nice tool to play with (and definitely some good practice for your programming skills) but yeah, the point is... it's pointless. :?

The functions themselves are not self-explanatory either. I had the paint brush enabled (with the standard diameter and density - uh well, does density also belong to the paint brush?) and it gave me a 3x3 "+". I don't know why. The diameter was put to 6; the map size was 10x10.
Same for the spray paint tool. When I changed some parameters, the spray paint eventually spread a little wider. But yeah, again I don't get the point of these functions. Are you going to promote AWBW by uploading design maps (like they promoted the Mario Paint music maker via Youtube)?

You maybe should have worked on the aesthetics prior to publishing this tool, really. It's not much effort to define a few CSS classes and apply some nice boxes there.

Also, I'm missing the dragging option (you keep the mouse pressed and move around the map, and while you do so, all moused-over tiles will become the selected tile).



But yeah, big ups to you, nice work.
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby ichbinsehselber » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:20 pm

Ian_the_pro wrote: what more could you ask for ?

Well, I could ask for a link :wink:
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby headphone » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:30 pm

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=13582
Here's his.



Also, updates might take awhile...
I'm recoding atm.

Also, I suck at styling things so if somebody wants to make a css for my site, go right ahead.
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby headphone » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:00 pm

Added symmetry, its the bar that starts off saying "none". You select the symmetry you want before you start on the map, it'll do the symmetry you want as you go. I'm going to be working on the layout next, and then the road fixer.
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby Walker » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:14 am

The symmetry tool is very interesting headphone, I played around with it a bit. I was pretty confused for a little while, but I think I understand what you did.

To me, what you're calling "left to right diagonal" and "top to bottom diagonal" is what I call rotational symmetry. What you have there as rotational symmetry is maybe double rotational or something - you fill in 1 quadrant and the other 3 get filled in rotationally, whereas for regular rotational symmetry, you fill in 1 quadrant and only one other quadrant is also filled in. It looks like it works pretty well, very neat.

The only thing that was a little counter-intuitive for me is that for the rotational symmetry (aka left to right diagonal and top to bottom diagonal), you can only click on one side of the map in order to fill in the other side. I understand how this would be easier to program, but is there a way to combine what you did with left to right diagonal and top to bottom diagonal and have it so that you can click anywhere on the map and have it mirror? Because left to right and top to bottom diagonal do the exact same thing, the only difference appears to be where on the map you can click (left to right allows clicking on the left half of the map, top to bottom allows clicking on the top half of the map). For me, it would be ideal if I could click any quadrant of the map and have it mirror exactly as it currently does under these two options. So in short, can you combine those two, but also have it be possible to click on the right and bottom halves of the map?

I'm also not sure exactly how useful what you call "rotational symmetry" is, at least for me, but there's no real reason to take it out. I guess if you're making a map and all 4 quadrants are exactly the same then it's perfect, but usually those maps aren't the greatest.

Also, would it be possible to put in another "true diagonal" option? That way you can have the diagonal going in either direction; right now it goes from top-left to bottom-right only. You could just call it "true diagonal 1" and "true diagonal 2".

Great work on this though! If you can pull off the combined rotational symmetry thing, this map-maker will be awesome! Props to you for getting this new stuff put in so quickly. :)

Also @ Harti: the spray paint isn't very useful, I agree, but the paint brush actually is. I know that a lot of times I make an outline of how I want a land mass or ocean to look, and then I have to go through and fill it in by clicking each individual square, which often requires 100-200 clicks. The paint brush saves you a lot of time for filling in big areas like that, and even more time if you can just move the mouse without clicking!
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Re: A Newer Map Maker

Postby ichbinsehselber » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:47 am

The function to have all 4 quadrants the same (rotational) could be useful when making 4 player maps
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