All times are UTC - 5 hours
Moderator: Forum Mods
Ratatoskr wrote:Side note: could we consider unbanning Nell in the future? From what I've seen, it's not a case of "she's overpowered" so much as "Hellraider made the original rules and didn't like her." IMO having her as an option makes the choice pool more interesting on maps when one of the top tier isn't glaringly best (aka those maps where everybody picks VB).
Luck IS a skill!
Sirlin wrote:Japan has also shown signs of a soft-ban on another character in Super Turbo. I bring up this example because it lives on the threshold. It is just on the edge of what is reasonable to ban because it is "too good." Anything less than this would not be reasonable, so perhaps others can use it as a benchmark to decide what is reasonable in their games.
The reason is that many believe the game to have much more variety without Old Sagat. Even if he is only second best in the game by some measure, he flat out beats half the characters in the game with little effort. Half the cast can barely even fight him, let alone beat him. Other top characters in the game, good as they are, win by much more interaction and more "gameplay."
If someone had made these claims in the game's infancy, no sort of ban would be warranted. Further testing through tournaments would be warranted. But we now have ten years of testing. We don't have all Old Sagat vs. Old Sagat matches in tournaments, but we do know which characters can't beat him and as a result are very rarely played in America. We likewise can see that this same category of characters flourishes in Japan, where Old Sagats are rare and only played by the occasional violator of the soft ban. It seems that the added variety of viable characters might outweigh the lack of Old Sagat. Is this ban warranted then? To be honest, I am not totally convinced that it is, but it is just barely in the ballpark of reasonableness since there is a decade of data on which to base the claim.
Ratatoskr wrote:My point is that disliking playing against Nell is a matter of individual taste, not game integrity, and that the personal taste of one previous league organizer should not be removing a CO from everyone's pool. If we decide to ban Nell, there should be solid reasons to back the decision and BENEFITS to doing so. For benefits, as far as I can tell the only one is to make some players feel better. Humor me some discussion as to why the attitude that Nell messes up the game misses a lot of AW reality.
Ratatoskr wrote:Then why is Lady Luck so evil in some minds? Because it involves the random damage bonus built into the game, which we're not used to dealing with besides hoping for OHKOs.
Ratatoskr wrote:So getting hit by a random-damage-bonus power "feels" worse than getting hit by a power that says "all units deal hp/2 bonus damage", because there's luck involved and luck is evil. That's not a gameplay fact, that's a matter of personal taste. Luck-based OHKOs are key in deciding some games, but people don't bitch about that, because it's generally accepted as part of the game. Broaden your concept of how AWBW plays to include some of the fringe cases, like Sturm, ric***ulous Grimm-Grimm games, COPs, SCOPs, towers, luck KOs that break your defenses, and, oh yeah, Nell.
No, it isn't, it's just harder to get rid of. I'd prefer if the game was entirely deterministic.Ratatoskr wrote:That's not a gameplay fact, that's a matter of personal taste. Luck-based OHKOs are key in deciding some games, but people don't bitch about that, because it's generally accepted as part of the game.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest