AW/FE by Web

AWBW/FEBW Forum
It is currently Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:05 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Colosseum

Forum for AWBW Tournaments

Moderator: Forum Mods

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Sun May 15, 2011 6:57 pm

Yeah I promise I'll keep running it for as long as people are interested in playing. There are a lot of people who dropped out, but that just means we're keeping the most motivated people around I suppose.

Either way, I've already worked out roughly what the divisions for Season 5 will look like, and I'm planning on starting it on June 1st. That means Month 1 will be June, Month 2 will be July, and Month 3 will be August. So CK, I think it should be fine if you're gone in July just to start your Month 2 games in August along with your Month 3 games (as long as your opponents don't mind, which they shouldn't).

In other news, I updated the Season 4 standings today. Congratulations to Ultra Storm for winning Season 4! Also congrats to Black Mont-Blanc, shompiador_kalabaza, ichbinsehselber, oswaldoo12, and red11 for winning their respective divisions. Only the winners of Division 2 and Division 4a are still undecided.
Image
User avatar
Walker
Map Committee
Map Committee
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:02 am
Location: US

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:19 am

THIS IS IMPORTANT!!

With the coming of the new league, the Colosseum as it is now is redundant. The League does everything that the Colosseum currently does, except better and with less work on everyone's part. Therefore, the Colosseum as it currently exists is pointless, and should be closed down.

However if people are still interested in playing in the Colosseum, I have no problem continuing to run it. If there is interest, we have two options.

Option 1) Continue the Colosseum as it is now, regardless of the fact that the League makes it redundant.

Option 2) Continue the Colosseum with a new format designed to be different from what the League offers.

I am in favor of Option 2, if there is interest in keeping the Colosseum going. If we do this, I will be making the Colosseum more casual, as the League already provides a good source and volume of competitive games. There have been a couple ideas for how to change the Colosseum that have been mentioned to me.

1) Change into a round robin format. All games within a season would be started simultaneously against each other player in your division, instead of starting 2 games a month as is currently the case.
2) Use the Colosseum for testing of innovative and new types of gameplay for AWBW. For example, broken CO battles or high funds or other gimmicks would be the type of games provided.

I like both of these ideas, and am open to other suggestions.

So in conclusion, please give feedback on A) Whether or not you would be interested in participating in a 6th season of the Colosseum, and B) What type of format you would prefer if you are interested.

Thanks!
Image
User avatar
Walker
Map Committee
Map Committee
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:02 am
Location: US

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Red11 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:24 am

The Colosseum should not be cancelled.

The link you provide, leads to a mere suggestion of a tourney which shows no evidence of a tourney which does everything the Colosseum does, only better.


For example I quote the following piece of mystery.

""Every night, games will be created for you, up until you have as many league games as your concurrent games setting.
In these games, you will be matched up against opponents of a similar skill level. It will take a few games to properly evaluate your ability.
The created games will appear in your games as games waiting to start, with a random CO selected for you.
You have 3 days to change your CO and your country color, if you so desire. After that, the game will begin. ""


You do a great job running the Colosseum, it's a fine format, which has already established its popularity with many good players.

You shouldnt allow yourself to be used - to poach players for a completely unknown, not even properly explained tourney. Instead, what will happen is this - player interest will become disunited and fragmentalized.
Red11
Anti-Air
Anti-Air
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:05 am

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Hellraider » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:06 pm

Red11 wrote:"Every night, games will be created for you, up until you have as many league games as your concurrent games setting.
In these games, you will be matched up against opponents of a similar skill level. It will take a few games to properly evaluate your ability.
The created games will appear in your games as games waiting to start, with a random CO selected for you.
You have 3 days to change your CO and your country color, if you so desire. After that, the game will begin."


And which part of that is not understandable? To summarize why walker feels the new league does everything the colosseum does, just in better:

- You get matched against opponents of similar strength with a constantly changing elo-rating, which doesn't have to wait for a season to end to adjust. You can rise in ranks way faster compared to the colosseum.
- The League is much more comfortable, not relying on players to create their games themselves.
- You can set the amount of games you want, so you can reduce your amount of games or dropout without problems if short on time.

In case you aren't aware, I created the colosseum because I envisioned something like the new league, but it wasn't possible at that point of time yet. So I made the colosseum in its current form as a make-shift solution to provide people with games against people of a similar skill level. The new league does that more comfortably, more flexible and after the initial batches of games more accurately.

What I'd personally like to see in the colosseum are alternate settings. FoW, high funds and brokens especially are the most interesting ones, and give people something they won't find in the league.
User avatar
Hellraider
Rocket
Rocket
 
Posts: 1635
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:39 am

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:25 pm

Ahem. First of all, saying this...
Red11 wrote:You shouldnt allow yourself to be used - to poach players...

... is both ignorant in general, as well as disrespectful towards me. I find it highly offensive, and strongly suggest considering your word choice and tone more carefully in the future.

If you have questions or comments about the new league (which is a league, not a tourney), I suggest you pose them in the thread designed for that, the thread that I linked. I would really like to hear your questions about the league and why you have such a negative reaction towards it, but in the appropriate thread please.

As for Colosseum, thank you for your compliment. But I am not saying that I will cancel the Colosseum. I am suggesting that we change its format so that it is not redundant with the new league, and am attempting to gauge people's interest on whether they would like to continue playing. Also, if you like how the Colosseum is now, you are going to absolutely love the league. :)

But the Colosseum is actually not fine as it is. There are multiple dropouts each season, and it is a lot of stress for many players to create their own games each month. The Colosseum also has a slow game rate (2 a month), a low variety of opponents (3 every season), a low variety of maps (6 a season), cannot accomodate new players easily (only at the start of the season), cannot handle dropouts well, and advances deserving players very slowly (over multiple seasons). The new league fixes ALL of these problems - I promise - while losing none of the advantages of the Colosseum.

Edit: Also it looks like Hellraider snuck a post in while I was typing this. I agree with what he said.
Image
User avatar
Walker
Map Committee
Map Committee
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:02 am
Location: US

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Red11 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:39 pm

Well, i didnt mean to offend anyone. :D

What I have given was my gut response as a player in the Colosseum, that is the standpoint i have taken in response to your request re: feedback on the fate of the Colosseum. I looked at the links, made a snap summary of the situation and jumped in with feedback.

I like the Colosseum because two games a month is good number to focus on, just enough to remain an active player at awbw, but not hugely demanding on your time. Plus you get the gap, between games and between seasons. All in all, a good long term way to remain a player at awbw, maintain interest in an ongoing tourney, see your progress etc, aim for the Colosseum in Rome...

Maybe other long term players will be encouraged to participate in the Colosseum, for the same reasons I gave above.

Conversely, I couldnt see myself joining a different tourney, with less players, and so less challenging, say half the field in the current Colosseum, and with more time commitment, joining parameters, no. of games at once etc.
Red11
Anti-Air
Anti-Air
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:05 am

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:52 pm

Red11 wrote:Conversely, I couldnt see myself joining a different tourney, with less players, and so less challenging, say half the field in the current Colosseum, and with more time commitment, joining parameters, no. of games at once etc.


Could you see yourself joining a new league that has more players than Colosseum with a wider variety of better and more challenging opponents, that lets you choose how many games you want to play at once, and requires absolutely no work on your part besides choosing your CO for a game?

Because that's what the league is.

I cannot stress this enough. The league is everything the Colosseum is, except better. No exaggeration. No kidding. If you like the Colosseum over the league, it's because you haven't tried the league yet. :)

This is why I want to change the format of Colosseum.
Image
User avatar
Walker
Map Committee
Map Committee
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:02 am
Location: US

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Abroxas » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:19 pm

I like the idea of continuing the Colosseum with a different concept. There are so much possibilities: Broken CO fighting, different fundings, FoW. Though I'd like to admit that the time which isn't needed for organizing the Colosseum could be used for tournaments. While the new league is meant to create games for people with different skills, the Colosseum could be used to offer a more competitive modus, like - just for example - a k.o. tourney.
If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.
User avatar
Abroxas
Tank
Tank
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:28 pm
Location: Germany

Re: The Colosseum

Postby ichbinsehselber » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:47 pm

In my opinion the colosseum stands for a set of divisions which people can rise and fall in. I would like to continue playing in the Colosseum, if it lives on.

I do not see the league any similar. The league seems to make games automatically and match those people that are free currently. Well I do not know exactly but in any case this seems different.

Also, like in most other aspects in life, in my eyes the new thing should prove its worth before it can viably replace those things established and existing.
ichbinsehselber
Tank
Tank
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:28 pm

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:58 am

Abroxas wrote:While the new league is meant to create games for people with different skills...

ichbinsehselber wrote:I do not see the league any similar. The league seems to make games automatically and match those people that are free currently. Well I do not know exactly but in any case this seems different.

Both of these statements are operating under the assumption that the league's matchmaking system is the same as for the old leagues. Let me clear that up, because we fixed this.

The new league only matches players who are within 20% of each other's rating. If you are at 800, you play people between 620 and 1000 (800 - [0.2 x 800] = 620 and 1000 - [0.2 x 1000] = 800). You CANNOT play people outside of that +/- 20% range. Also, the league matches the closest rated players first. So you will play the people who are closest to you in that range more often. This works much like the Division idea in the Colosseum, except more accurately, more flexibly, and with more opponent variety.

Abroxas wrote:the Colosseum could be used to offer a more competitive modus, like - just for example - a k.o. tourney.

The league is actually the perfect competitive modus already, because it is free-flowing and is an accurate gauge of player skill. This is an improvement over the Colosseum's current system. As for the tournament idea, I don't want to give my plans away just yet. But I guarantee that within the next month there will be new tournaments starting to give players K.O. tournament games.

ichbinsehselber wrote:Also, like in most other aspects in life, in my eyes the new thing should prove its worth before it can viably replace those things established and existing.

Of course, you are correct about this. And that is why it is in beta testing right now on the forum. The Colosseum's next season isn't going to start until October at the earliest anyways, so there will be plenty of time in between for people to play with and get used to the league. If October rolls around and people prefer Colosseum over the league, then fine. But I am incredibly, incredibly sure that will not be the case. :)
Image
User avatar
Walker
Map Committee
Map Committee
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:02 am
Location: US

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Red11 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:41 pm

walkerboh01 wrote:
Red11 wrote:Conversely, I couldnt see myself joining a different tourney, with less players, and so less challenging, say half the field in the current Colosseum, and with more time commitment, joining parameters, no. of games at once etc.


Could you see yourself joining a new league that has more players than Colosseum with a wider variety of better and more challenging opponents, that lets you choose how many games you want to play at once, and requires absolutely no work on your part besides choosing your CO for a game?

Because that's what the league is.

I cannot stress this enough. The league is everything the Colosseum is, except better. No exaggeration. No kidding. If you like the Colosseum over the league, it's because you haven't tried the league yet. :)

This is why I want to change the format of Colosseum.



Ok, im starting to get an idea of what it's all about. Sounds Good! Will try to participate in both tourneys in the months and year ahead.
Red11
Anti-Air
Anti-Air
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:05 am

Re: The Colosseum

Postby blanci1 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:36 am

well even though im not playing in the coloseum i think it is quite successful judging by number of participants and so am very surprised to see suggestions that it should be cancelled.
What are the suposed problems of the coloseum? Are they really so bad?

I think we need to implement big changes at AWBW slowly, and make consultation with users and have plenty of transparency ... i can understand that Red11 was happy in the coloseum and can feel his disappointment when suddenly told that it could be cancelled without any prior debate about its suposed problems.

And we always need to consider the positives as well as negatives.

Lets not forget that the coloseum gives people a chance to win their own personal lower division... which is in itself an enjoyable challenge. This seems to be quite distinct from the new "champions global AWBW league" (which i have been happy to join and is also fine by me). Of course top players wont always think too much about lower down players, and about how they view AWBW.. that is why we must keep talking and asking everyone.

I am sure there are any more positives to the coloseum too. As with the neoladder, i dont think things need to be cancelled. Just let the people who like it run it. If people dont like it, and better things are available then it will inevitably fade away.

I see the global champions as a good effort at a new and different kind of league , hopefully with a reliable rating system. Lets not forget the global champions is still in its early days. It doesnt need to replace coloseum, they can both exist.

Actually, I would prefer a coloseum with less divisions with more players in each, but i suggested that before and no-one else concurred back then.

Good luck to both i say.
blanci1
Artillery
Artillery
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:30 am
Location: spain

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:54 pm

walkerboh01 wrote:But I am not saying that I will cancel the Colosseum. I am suggesting that we change its format so that it is not redundant with the new league, and am attempting to gauge people's interest on whether they would like to continue playing.
Image
User avatar
Walker
Map Committee
Map Committee
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:02 am
Location: US

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Frostylight » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:00 pm

I would probably play in the next round of Colosseum. It would just need some differences from the League games. Variety and all that.

I just did not return to the site sooner to play in the previous events, so I can't really comment too much.
User avatar
Frostylight
Battleship
Battleship
 
Posts: 1899
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:52 am

Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:16 pm

I personally think Colosseum would be really cool if we used it for alternate "modes" of AWBW - like FoW and high funds. Basically just non-standard AWBW play (which is what the league offers). Broken COs, mixed base maps, or really anything else we can come up with that is unique and could work well. It'd be a lot of fun, and quite new as well.
Image
User avatar
Walker
Map Committee
Map Committee
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:02 am
Location: US

PreviousNext

Return to AWBW Tournaments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group