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The Colosseum

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Re: The Colosseum

Postby ichbinsehselber » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:05 pm

Sounds like an experimental tourney and a bit like Red11s tourney.

To me it seems strange that people speak of the league replacing tourneys. Leagues and tourneys are very different.
Significant differences between colosseum and league are:
1.) The colosseum has divisions while league has not.
2.) The colosseum is specifically started at a certain time and everybody plays a certain number of games in approximately the same time (or at least should).
3.) The colosseum has organised tables of standings.
4.) Everybody plays the same maps in the colosseum.
5.) The colosseum has a set start and end while the league is ongoing.

Also, I agree with Blanc1.

This does not mean that I would not like an experimental tourney. To the contrary. I would really like to play something in that direction. Especially a real competition with fog on.
Last edited by ichbinsehselber on Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:11 pm

Experimental maybe, but only in the sense that not everything about high funds, FoW, etc is fully known. Red11's tournament was something quite different, I don't really see any similarities. It'd be basically the same as Colosseum is now, except instead of playing on standard maps, we'd use high funds maps or FoW or whatever else.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Hellraider » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:19 am

ichbinsehselber wrote:Sounds like an experimental tourney and a bit like Red11s tourney.

To me it seems strange that people speak of the league replacing tourneys. Leagues and tourneys are very different.
Significant differences between colosseum and league are:
1.) The colosseum has divisions while league has not.
2.) The colosseum is specifically started at a certain time and everybody plays a certain number of games in approximately the same time (or at least should).
3.) The colosseum has organised tables of standings.
4.) Everybody plays the same maps in the colosseum.
5.) The colosseum has a set start and end while the league is ongoing.

Also, I agree with Blanc1.

This does not mean that I would not like an experimental tourney. To the contrary. I would really like to play something in that direction. Especially a real competition with fog on.


To share my point of view a bit. The divisions were made because it was impossible to have a proper accurate ranking at that point of time. I know that they nowadays are "trademark" of the colosseum, but they are inaccurate and unflexible in terms of providing good ranking. The league also has a scoreboard (although I'd love to see win/loss there - so go into the league forum and petition for it with me :)) and there are also a set amount of maps to play on. The colosseum was made to be ongoing as well, the seasons were there to make it possible for ascending and descending to happen. The colosseum does feel differently from the Global League, but the real differences are very superficial.

I know that I have no right to decide about the colosseum anymore, but if I were to make changes to it I'd love to see it being used to explore/pioneer the metagames of high funds and FoW. Slight format changes might be in order too, as having more people per division is better for having more playstyles/COs clash against each other. Depending on how many people would be interested, it would be affordable to have like 7 players per division with a simple round robin format. Of course, players should be able to participate in both FoW and High Funds if desired.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:15 pm

Here's what I propose for Colosseum rules/format next season.

- Divisions are composed of 7 players instead of 4.

- At the end of each season, the top 2 players from each division move to the next highest division, and the bottom two move down.

- Everyone plays each person in their division one time for a total of 6 games.

- 3 games per player are started each month, meaning a season will last 2 months plus a bit of extra time.

- There will be 3 categories of games:
1) High funds - 2000 > funds per property > 3000.
2) Fog of War - games played with FoW turned on.
3) Miscellaneous - a variety of options; for example: normal games, broken COs, no COP, black tile or gimmick maps, etc.

- Each player will play 2 games from each category, meaning 2 HF, 2 FoW, and 2 misc. games.

- Each player has the option to not play any games from one category. For example, you can decide not to play any HF games. Then instead of games in that category, you play one additional game from the other two categories.

- When you signup you declare which category you don't want games from, if any. The match-ups within each division will then be selected so that each player's preferences are respected.

Everything else is the same as the Colosseum is now. This also depends partially on how many people join. Please let me know whether you'd prefer to play in the Colosseum with the current or proposed format, or if you have any suggestions for how to improve on the new format I proposed.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Hellraider » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:23 am

I honestly think that is too many games. Also, I don't see how feasible it is logistically to have some players playing extra games in one category. It would be better to have seperate divisions/rankings for the different categories and players only play in the categories they are interested in.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:24 pm

Well 6 is the current number of games, so that's where I left it. I don't think 6 games per season is an unreasonable number.

As for separate divisions, maybe that could work, but it would reduce the number of people you could play, meaning more imbalanced matches overall. Also, I think it would work out reasonably well logistically as I described it above, although there may be some cases where it wouldn't. In that case the default would just be to play a normal game against each other.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Hellraider » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:56 pm

It was 2 per month until now, I don't think everybody can sustain 3 per month + new league games compared to before.

Also, it is a logistical nightmare, you just need an odd number of people who for instance don't want to play FoW, and at least one person would be forced to play more/less games in a format that it should be. Which is why separation of the categories makes it far easier to handle the possibly differing interests.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:58 pm

But having separate categories doesn't fix any of those problems. I assume you're suggesting that within each category everyone would still play a full 6-games season. What if someone wants to play both FoW and HF? Now they're playing 12 games a season, and that is surely too many.

In addition, there are even more logistical problems. What if we have 6 players in HF, 5 in FoW and 12 in Misc.? You'd have entirely different game schedules and likely game amounts per season for each category, and you wouldn't be able to compare one category to another. If a player wants to switch from FoW to HF after a season, it becomes more difficult to figure out what new divisions would be and so on. It just creates a load of new problems.

I tried to keep my suggested format as close to the current Colo. format as possible. I switched from 2 to 3 games a month because it seems that most people drop out or don't start games by the 3rd month, and so reducing it can help with that. The boot/AET would be longer (maybe 5/7) so people don't have to play games as fast. As for the logistics, it wouldn't be perfect obviously. But I think it works.

Example showing that it works
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Hellraider » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:36 pm

No, I would have suggested one game per month per category, and what matters is not the total amount of games, but the games/month ratio. Also, I thought you wanted people who don't want to play in one category to play one more in each other category, and not just use misc as buffer. Does that also mean that you can't not play in miscellaneous? Maybe it would be better to first see how many people want to play in which formats.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Walker » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:24 pm

If we play one game per month per category, that's still 3 games a month. But the total # of games matters too since it affects the length of the season. I would be against anything longer than a 3 month season, in light of the problems Colo. currently has with dropouts in the 3rd month.

Also, I thought you wanted people who don't want to play in one category to play one more in each other category, and not just use misc as buffer.

Yeah, but that's actually impossible logistically it turns out. I think if anything we put in a 4th category which is "normal" and use that as a buffer. That's basically what i'm suggesting.

But I am also curious to see what other people think.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby Ultra Storm » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:55 am

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Your notion of ”right” is what was imprinted in you since you were young.
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Re: The Colosseum

Postby excrimophalus 1 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:36 pm

The below statement is true.v

^ The above statement is false.
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