AWBW Grand Tournament

[EchelonThree]

Also, I'd object to league players being seeded by RATING, I'd advise win average instead. (winning by all your opponents stalling on the verge of defeat and getting booted doesn't increase your rating)

They did that on purpose (was frosries idea I think) so "free" games where your opponent gets booted wouldn't count towards rating. In practice games where someone resigns on day 1 get counted, and games where someone gets booted on day 30 after months of play, don't get counted. I dislike the system, my opponents always get booted after they realize they have lost, about half of my games get the opponent booted:S
I suggest looking at rating though, it factors in if your opponent had a high rating or not, the win/lose only shows wins and losses.[/quote]

So take mine for example, I'm one of the lower rated players on there, but it fails to take into account that most of my 7 wins came from stalling opponents.

And then there's the games with completely lopsided COs (LOL, Sami vs Jake on a small map), and poor maps with FTA/STA (pheasant, pipes aplenty, bisection).

Now, let's take another league rating example.
I'm not against Sothis, but his WLD is 7-4-0, my WLD is 7-4-0, he's third in his division, I'm sixteenth.

Leagues are not a reliable method

[peter91]

I'll join.

[Sothis]

Now, let's take another league rating example.
I'm not against Sothis, but his WLD is 7-4-0, my WLD is 7-4-0, he's third in his division, I'm sixteenth.

Yeah you obviously got screwed since your losses counted for rating points, but your wins did not. There's no way your rating should be 770 after 7-4-0.

I agree that ratings mean nothing. The win/loss ratio is what matters. I'm sure they know this and will take it into account. (Though it doesn't really matter of course. The players he's talking about are not borderline in any sense of the word. They have perfect or near-perfect records as well as the highest rankings. In other words, it's NOT people like you and I.)

[benbever]

So take mine for example, I'm one of the lower rated players on there, but it fails to take into account that most of my 7 wins came from stalling opponents.
And then there's the games with completely lopsided COs (LOL, Sami vs Jake on a small map), and poor maps with FTA/STA (pheasant, pipes aplenty, bisection).
Now, let's take another league rating example.
I'm not against Sothis, but his WLD is 7-4-0, my WLD is 7-4-0, he's third in his division, I'm sixteenth.
Leagues are not a reliable method

League ratings are pretty reliable, althoughs there's some luck (and bad luck) in them. They get more accurate with more games played.
I checked your L1 league records, it seems like you had around 6 real wins, and 4 real losses. You're rating thus should be around 840, however those wins were against not-very-good players, so you gained little rating, and those losses were also againt not-so-good players, so you lost a lot of rating. Add the bad luck of one or two of the real wins being noobs getting booted, and you could end up with a rating under 800. It's because rating takes into acount how good your opponents are.

Sothis had around 5 real wins, and 4 real losses, but those losses were against fdkanns, napolean, black mont blanc and benbever, the last three had ratings of 936, 1078 and 1091. He lost almost no ratingpoints when he lost against those people, yet he gained points from the wins. That's why his rating is way higher. Just hope you play sothis one day and get back some of that rating
Anyway the win/lose record is still there to look at.

[Blade`]

I'm in if possible

[Haku]

Count me in.

[Dhomochevsky]

Rule clarification in answer to various questions (first post amended):

Boot:

In my experience a boot is at negative figures like nerd-boy says (i.e. -1 or less). A boot of 0 counts as 0 days left but not necessarily 0 hours, so a turn can still be taken on a boot of 0.

Seeding:

Seeding is pretty much guaranteed to cause complaints, so i shall clarify how it shall be done.

Firstly, the aim of seeding is to try and allow a spread of the top players over the groups. This is in order that :
(a) they don't come into conflict and knock each other out early on, and
(b) lower ability players are not placed in a 'group of death' and unfairly kicked out of the tournament early on.


As EchelonThree points out, league ratings are not the best judge of ability. I fully agree with this.
In practise, the seeding will take the best players based on reputation. This in turn will be based hopefully on ability, i.e. tournaments won, top players defeated etc.

As Sothis points out, without meaning to be insulting, the players who shall be considered for seeding are those who are at regularly at the top of e.g. tournaments, leagues etc.


The final seeding shall be decided by myself, hellraider and nerd-boy. I must emphasise that seeding is not perfect! There will likely be some players who are essentially as good as seeded players who do not get seeded. This is regrettable, however notice that a seeded player is not at an advantage, other than avoiding qualifying. They still have to win in order to progress. The aim is only to spread the good players as evenly as possible over the groups.


Finally, the decision of the tournament admins regarding seedings shall be final. If you have a serious problem with it, please pm us and do not flame in this thread. Remember, it's only a game after all! If you don't get seeded, it is not a personal insult. It also does not mean that you can't win! In fact, a non-seeded player who comes through to win will gain a pretty decent reputation, so take the challenge!


(apologies for length)

[Ultra Storm]

I wouldn't mind if boot/aet was 4/6 (or 4/7, 5/6 ot the regular 5/7) although a few games would last many months. With aet 5 games could last many months too.

Actually, 5/7 sounds better since I already have a game like that (our YOLT game).

[benbever]

Which is taking way too long

League ratings are a good judge of ability (for the players active in leagues), a lot better than reputation. However, a combination is still better, and I trust the organisators will try and keep things fair and fun. Seeding (while not perfect) is still better than not seeding imho (although it's not that important, winning games is.)

[Black Mont-Blanc]

I want to join this game(thank you for send PM dhomo).
I know highest AW player in JPN(Perhaps, he is Kamuscha, Frostylight class).
But he isn't playing AWBW(he using dial-up connection)
Therefore, I recommend samgetan. he stronger than me.

[Dhomochevsky]

Ace, it's a very high level tourny at the moment

[funwes]

I have a question for those running this: I am going to be gone for a week in July (and not too active the week before). Would you advise me to stay out of the tournament so I would stall a game for a whole week, or would it be ok?

I don't mind either way you rule.

[Sothis]

Just hope you play sothis one day and get back some of that rating

Nooooo! They are MINE points! I endured brutal ass-whippings to get my incredible 7-4 record, as ben pointed out. Every one of those losses was against someone I shouldn't even be playing. But I'm starting to get better at *almost* irritating them before I am decimated!

This tourney will be fun, although with all the top players joining anyone can predict who will be here after the first eliminations. I plan on making a valiant effort but dying pathetically in the group stage. I can't wait!

[Felix45]

if you seed brackets, I suggest Taz's league as a guideline. most top players have played in it and placed well (top 5ish). There is nothing random about it, and was established before the current official ladders.


I'll join this

[benbever]

This tourney will be fun, although with all the top players joining anyone can predict who will be here after the first eliminations. I plan on making a valiant effort but dying pathetically in the group stage. I can't wait!

Well, I don't know. Back in the old days (2005/2006) I knew exactly who the top players were, and they could be counted on one hand (if you want to know, see the tournament user records top 5.)
Since then a lot of new and very good players joined, and a lot of the regular players got a lot better. For instance I thought I could beat this newcomer "Taz" while having dinner, or I could beat this gamestalling newb "hellraider" or mapcritisizer "srstarry" while watching a movie. No. Things aren't that simple anymore I see a lot of people having good chances at winning things.